Trends that Influence Purchasing Decisions - Justin Rinaldi

Justin Aronstein (00:03.043) Thank you so much for coming on the show, Justin. Thanks so much for coming on the show, Justin. We're really happy to have you. So to get started, we're just gonna check in. How are you feeling today? Justin Rinaldi (00:17.346) Feeling great, been a busy week, lots happening. Always excited to join y'all. Connor (00:27.172) Excellent. And where are you joining from? Justin Rinaldi (00:30.594) I'm based out of Minneapolis, Minnesota. company, Safety Speed Manufacturing, is out of Ham Lake, just 10-15 miles north here from Minneapolis. Connor (00:38.468) Do y'all do remote work or are you in an office person? Justin Rinaldi (00:43.086) We're mostly in office, so I had a little flexibility. Connor (00:48.582) Nice. Justin Aronstein (00:52.175) And so what's your exact current role right now? And what do you own in that Justin Rinaldi (00:56.494) Yeah, so I'm the director of marketing and e-commerce as businesses or as our businesses shifted towards digital. I'm fully responsible for all marketing initiatives, all e-commerce initiatives, graphic design, marketing, SEO, written copy, small PR focus, of driving revenue through our digital platforms, enabling purchasing decisions to be made across all platforms. Heavy Focus recently has been on media consumption enablement through our channels. Just with how the shift in technology has really happened here in last two, three years, people are trusting the search engines less. So putting more of an emphasis on driving content and creating successful journeys within our platforms and having secondary platforms that we that we're not in control of having great UX across all platforms. Justin Aronstein (02:02.221) What does media consumption enablement mean? It's actually a term that's not used that often. Justin Rinaldi (02:07.65) Yeah, so it's enabling anyone, whether providing the right assets to enable anyone, whether an account payable or top level engineer looking for the technical specs to be able to interpret and consume the information presented within our organization. It's imperative. We've seen a huge shift with our customers. Our customers no longer want to talk on the phone with our team first. And that's where the media consumption piece is so incredibly important for us and my role because people are losing trust in search engines, the results presented. So we have by focusing on this area, we have two different user experiences. One is when people are in our website. And the second is anywhere outside of our website where we do not own the domain, enabling the media consumption piece, whether it's someone in a cost payable or top-level engineer is imperative. My strategy has always been that our target customer is anyone with a cell phone and a credit card. The media consumption piece enables that. Connor (03:18.832) Interesting. That's an interesting topic that you mentioned that people aren't using search engines anymore. I've read recently that I think a lot of like Gen Z, maybe Gen Alpha are more likely to go to somewhere like TikTok or Instagram to search for things as opposed to Google, which I think millennials or older are probably more accustomed to. Is that kind of what you're speaking to? Justin Rinaldi (03:43.918) Yeah, I mean, it's a part of it. know, you look at Facebook, Instagram, Google, Amazon, their ad delivery networks are no longer social platforms. Facebook, since 2021, has lost about 25 % of its unique visitors. It's no secret that the social platforms are not social platforms. They're ad delivery networks. Justin Rinaldi (04:13.944) putting strategies in place to counteract how traditional search has happened is a focus. are no longer blindly trusting brands because their user experience is so bad within an app. We're seeing trends on that this year. It's the first time we've seen study traffic from AI-based platforms to GPT. and perplexity within our own website. I think that, you know, it's slowly happening. I think people are being more intentional with how they consume information, more intentional with how they search for information because it's, you sign up for an app, you download an app, you blindly agree to the terms and conditions in order to use it. And you just by being complicit with the apps fully enables tracking. marketing initiatives. It's a little alarming, but there's really no opt out. So we're trying to reduce friction in how people feel when they search for our terminologies and they look for our products. Connor (05:32.964) interesting. Go ahead, Justin. Justin Aronstein (05:35.213) So, you're over a lot. How much of that is managed internally? How much do you rely on agencies for? Justin Rinaldi (05:45.134) Yeah, so I handle everything internally short of the back end website development. I'm a fully recovered ex web developer, which has positioned me in other areas for it to be a more technical director, kind of focused in on the weeds, but within my reins, trying to stay focused on top level initiatives. you know, luckily we have a good agency that manages the back end of our website, make sure it doesn't crash. But you know, it's Pretty minimal. Justin Aronstein (06:16.739) So what's the day to day look like? Justin Rinaldi (06:18.926) you know, the day to day looks like, you know, it all depends, you know, there is, you know, the week to week is, kind of where I would group it. You know, it's putting pieces, putting content in place for enablement with the rest of our team, putting the right assets, whether it's email marketing, or even identifying, new prospecting areas to go after, as well as, keeping up on the content, refreshing content, structuring data more efficiently, managing the different accounts, the Google Merchant Center, trying to stay on top of how our products are presented, and really managing when product data discrepancies arise. The week to week is never the same, and that's why I love my job. It's because being able to have my hands in so many different areas. It's not like a robot where you're doing the same thing for an entire week. Justin Aronstein (07:26.255) So I would love e-commerce. Justin Rinaldi (07:28.002) Yep. Connor (07:28.102) Yeah. Is there a part of your day that you look forward to the most or maybe a part of your job that you feel like you get the most validation or you just feel the most about? Justin Rinaldi (07:38.094) Honestly, it's engaging with our customers, seeing how they react to the digital experiences. for as much data as we have, a lot of it is testing strategies, implementation, but actually hearing from our customers what they like, what they don't like. Actually being in the weeds with our customers and getting the direct feedback. Most of the feedback is pretty positive, but even when there is Connor (07:56.956) So right. Justin Rinaldi (08:07.788) negative feedback. The best part about marketing is that everybody else in the company has strong opinions about how we should be doing our job. Same goes for our customers. Our customers have strong opinions about how marketers should be doing their job. that's the best part of it is being able to try and blend marketing strategies to fit everyone's need because it's so incredibly challenging. But being on the front lines. Connor (08:17.17) Mm-hmm. Connor (08:21.522) Yeah, it's Justin Rinaldi (08:37.678) and actually talking with the customers instead of just sitting behind a bunch of different screens not engaging, it goes a long way for the UX because not everything needs to be automated. And when you look at some of the platforms that have gone full steam ahead with removing humans from the user experience, it's actually hurting some brands. that's what I enjoy most. Justin Aronstein (09:03.652) Holy Connor (09:03.708) That's awesome. Yeah. Go ahead. Justin Aronstein (09:06.159) Do you get a chance to run experiments to try different things? you? Justin Rinaldi (09:12.424) absolutely. You know, I love the flexibility. I love A-B testing, different ads, campaigns, different content strategies. You know, if we're not trying new things, we're not moving forward. it's, you know, it's something where if try just testing internally and then full scale adoption, if the results small market proved to be well, you know, that's That's the fun piece because some campaigns, some tests don't work. Some tests work on a small scale but don't work on the large scale. Some tests work on work partially on the small scale but blow up on the large scale that actually upon reaching larger audiences actually take on a head of its own and that's that's the fun piece. Connor (10:06.77) How many, I mean you may not know this right away or off the top of your head, but how many experiments do y'all feel like y'all might be typically running in a month or at the same time even? Justin Rinaldi (10:16.238) Yeah, it all depends on, you know, it depends on the platform. It really depends on the ad delivery network that we're on, as well as the content piece. The heat mapping, kind of trying to stay on top of that, but also having the experience of being a fully recovered ex-developer, having the background experience, knowing where people eyes are going to go, you know, meshing the design aspect. It's, it's fun, you know, we've tried the... automation piece is kind of where most people think of experimenting, but not everything needs to be automated. A lot can be done just by changing different elements, like putting a phone number on mobile devices at the top banner. Even some software companies, agencies still haven't grasped the fact that people don't want to book a meeting with them in order to be sold something. they're missing, they've already missed the boat where Connor (11:09.148) Yeah. Justin Rinaldi (11:13.464) they don't provide the information upfront on their website. They don't have the right assets in place that actually create buy-in. then when they test three different LinkedIn messages with different subject lines, it's not effective because it's the same. It's the retread. Connor (11:30.864) Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Thinking about what you were saying a second ago with the user research, do you know about how often y'all are talking? mean, are y'all going in and doing like usability tests and speaking directly with the users or are y'all maybe working mostly off of customer service messages? Justin Rinaldi (11:34.882) Yeah. Justin Rinaldi (11:50.336) Yeah, so a lot of it, yeah, so it's a little bit of both. You know, we have our website data, but that doesn't tell the full story. know, talking with our customers, we have a fully implemented CRM where we have the data that's readily available to filter and sort what's happening. And even talking with our tech, our inside techs to build content around areas that questions are coming in on is important. Connor (12:18.258) Yeah, we're always trying to promote more engagement with users. It's surprising how many people I think just don't understand that there's so much useful and insightful data that you can get from just, you know, talking to five users. Yeah, it's crazy. Justin Rinaldi (12:32.074) Exactly. Justin Aronstein (12:36.655) Awesome. So, how did you get started? Justin Aronstein (12:45.355) Sorry, I wanted to rephrase this question. Yeah, I'll edit this out. Connor (12:46.13) He's gonna start it over right there. You gotta do like one or two different takes of it. Justin Aronstein (12:52.559) How did you get started in e-commerce? Justin Rinaldi (12:55.882) you know, so I started here as a marketing manager and it really evolved my first year here where the e-commerce was always a part of the part of the role. But as, you know, our website crashed my first year here, we had to rebuild it, on the fly. And that's where, I was able to flex some of my background knowledge, in web development, to actually Justin Aronstein (13:19.929) Mm-hmm. Justin Rinaldi (13:21.702) put together a fully comprehensive site, literally rewrote all of the copy. It was great timing to crash six months after starting the job. So upon, you know, upon crash, upon the site crashing, well, the e-commerce functionality crashed, I should say, but then that opened up the door for making it into my own and actually crafting it the way a brand's website should be crafted. You know, a lot of marketing jobs, or a lot of marketing careers, even in colleges. They don't have the e-commerce ecosystem built in to the careers degrees. even for the marketing manager job coming out of college, you could be looking at the following different majors competing for the same job. Business, mass communications, communications, graphic communications, some sort of design work. so many different careers that are all being thrown into the same career tracks. And that's an area where just with the e-commerce platforms, there's a ton of awesome e-commerce platforms out there, but it's not taught in schools because one, it's a high barrier to entry for a lot of e-commerce platforms. And two, a lot of the e-commerce platforms would rather have you work with one of their agency partners to build it. So, you know, there's... Justin Aronstein (14:46.02) Mm-hmm. Justin Rinaldi (14:47.16) there's a little bit of a, there's a, you know, there's a, it's partially gated. So building foundational skills around the foundational marketing is where, is what builds any e-commerce leader. Having the technical piece and then growing into the team management aspect of it, agency management as well. Connor (15:12.882) Interesting. I wanted to ask a little more about when you said the site went down or the e-commerce function went down. I feel like I've talked to other e-commerce managers where they've had these, you know, I would say just a chaotic or a nightmare moment with the site. I'm curious, could you go into how moment and maybe a little bit more about what happened? And then maybe you can't say that or reveal that either, which is. Justin Rinaldi (15:18.275) Yeah. Justin Rinaldi (15:32.19) Yeah Now, the site was built on a theme that predated when I joined, and there were pieces of code within the theme of the e-commerce scripts that just were not transmitting the data. It was not transmitting even over to the e-commerce ecosystem, so all the transactions were rejected. And because of how it was previously... Justin Aronstein (15:58.787) Mm-hmm. Justin Aronstein (16:02.541) Ha ha ha! Justin Rinaldi (16:03.82) Because of how it was previously built, the integrations were not available to actually stand it up or even patch it. So we did as good as we could. We were able to turn that into a communication marketing-based learning element for us, where we were over-communicating that it was down, that online ordering was not available, which If that were to happen today, we'd have much larger issues because we were not getting the order volume that we are presently. So it wasn't as much that happened in 2019. Yeah, 2019. So it was not as big of a deal, but it provided opportunities for us to really increase the user experience and really blow it up into a platform that we couldn't live without. Connor (17:00.278) Yeah, I love that message of taking some problem or you know something that seems like it would be a terrible thing and spinning it into a good thing Justin Rinaldi (17:07.918) Yeah, and honestly it was it was 2019 some people back in 2019 were still wary about Punching their credit cards online, you know, like the mass adoption we've seen on that is kind of crazy when you look back at it Connor (17:16.902) Yeah. Connor (17:21.2) I know it's got to be COVID, I think. It it's skyrocketed us into like 10 years into the future, I think for e-commerce and remote working and all these different parts of this industry. Justin Rinaldi (17:33.1) Yeah, absolutely. Technology is ever-changing, and that's the best part about marketing is you never know what's going to happen. Technology changes overnight, but it's people that drive the change. You look at how many tech product fails there are over the years. There have been some big, big swings that just try to force people to mass-adopt tech. that hasn't worked. know, Google won the whole social platform that was supposed to be living on within Google. You know, there's, you know, there is a lot of technology. No, and wasn't there some sort of glasses, some sort of glasses that were supposed to? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So there is a lot of technological innovation that even despite crazy amounts of money being spent in that Connor (18:09.062) Yeah. I forgot all about that. Justin Aronstein (18:19.639) Yeah, Google Glasses, yeah. It was gonna change healthcare. Connor (18:21.094) Yeah. Justin Rinaldi (18:33.198) you know the users didn't adopt it and you know that even that you even spending crazy money to push it out to market the users decided that it wasn't you know the users spoke and that's about technology changing you know it's the the right pieces are only successful if users adopt it and if it's good enough to adopt or if it's good enough for you for mass adoption Connor (19:00.454) Yeah, I mean look at NFTs. That's another thing that people thought were going to be big and now they've died off. I mean they could they could maybe come back I think depending on. Justin Rinaldi (19:02.956) Yeah, exactly. Justin Aronstein (19:08.463) I saw some NFTs are coming back, man. I saw it. Justin Rinaldi (19:10.956) No, and... Yeah. Connor (19:11.09) Yeah, I'm holding on to my investment. I'm not letting it go. They're coming back. Justin Rinaldi (19:14.958) Yeah, and you know, and it's kind of funny, like back in 2020, the whole Clubhouse app where it was exclusive group only invitation, but how social media platforms work, it's, you know, it's a copycat society where as soon as one thing trends, you know, even if look at whatever Metta is doing with threads, you know, they implemented that because of how much traffic they're losing on Facebook. You know, it's it's all cannibalization as soon as one platform implements something that starts taking off, everyone else does it, but they're still not addressing the root issues of why people are leaving their platform, and it's because of the ads. The user experiences have shifted in such a way, and it's still surprising that even a couple years later, that the platforms are no longer just serving a good UX. Connor (19:53.137) Yeah. Connor (20:06.096) Yeah, speaking of this and what we were talking about a second ago, I was remembering there was this app that they were trying to push out. feel like Kevin Hart was like the promoter of it. It was like short form. It was like TikTok and YouTube kind of combined. I cannot remember the name of Justin Aronstein (20:25.16) It's not the one that was seven second videos. Connor (20:27.442) It's not seven second videos. It was like, it was supposed to be like TV, on your phone, so it was like 15 minute long videos or something. You know, I can't remember what it was called now. I think it started with like a P or something. We'll move forward. I'll come back to this if I can remember it, but I just remember them really pushing that hard and there was a lot of money invested in it and people just didn't want it. Like it just, they could not get people to adopt it. Justin Rinaldi (20:53.838) Yeah. Justin Aronstein (20:54.863) Obviously it went nowhere. Which actually brings my next question. So you've had some great successes. Well done taking a site that crashed, being able to help shepherd it to something new and better and improved than what it was before, which is really interesting and you should give yourself a pat on the back. But more interesting is where have you not succeeded? What are some of your failures that you've been able to learn from and take forward with you? Justin Rinaldi (21:24.172) Yeah, there's so many, you don't learn if you don't fail. automated chatbots are the recent hot one where I had a fully automated chatbot built and people just tested it for like a week or so and people were not reacting well to it. Because it was just strange, because... Justin Aronstein (21:32.548) Yeah. Justin Rinaldi (21:51.63) We've had pretty good success with our team that has managed the initial chat bot that's been put up but you know, it's It's I think there's a lot of failure that's going in with this AI craze You know people people don't know how to define it. So people don't know how to implement it. I mean, that's that's one area like that Not everything needs to be automated and that's part of the customer experience journey is businesses are trying to automate too much and they've lost sight of providing a user experience. It's kind of like the ad delivery networks I referred to earlier. They've lost sight of what their customers want. Just because we can automate something doesn't mean that we should. Justin Aronstein (22:39.203) Totally. Totally. So was this an internal chatbot or kind of more customer facing? Connor (22:40.242) picture. Justin Rinaldi (22:48.001) outward-facing it yeah it did not work at all I tested it broke it myself a couple times you know and it just it wasn't up to par where we needed it to be negative reactions from it Justin Aronstein (23:04.751) And did you put it on for 100 % of the audience to see like, oh, will people use it? Or did you kind of run an experiment, a B test where to see? Justin Rinaldi (23:13.742) We ran it, gated on a site that wasn't creating too much traffic. It was on there, but the traffic wasn't outward. It wasn't our main site. Justin Aronstein (23:26.863) And are you going to come back to that? Are you going to say, OK, maybe this version 1 didn't work, but can we improve it and make it better? Justin Rinaldi (23:36.47) Yeah, yeah, I'm working on that. just, you know, there's probably, you know, it's, it's a far, it's far, it's far out. You know, it's kind of project that if we can get to the point of having scraping the data well enough and actually creating messaging that provides a good user experience that kind of mimics our team behind it, we'll move forward with it. But until we get to that point that that it's 99.9 % instead of like 80 % of what we want, then we'll, you know, until we get to that point, you know, it's not a 80-20 rule situation, it's a 99-1 rule situation. Justin Aronstein (24:20.271) Totally. So now we're going to kind of get to the checkout portion. We're looking forward and what's coming up. So specifically, what trends are you seeing that are influencing purchasing decisions? Justin Rinaldi (24:39.094) Yeah, so I think the usability, you know, the mobile checkout, that's by far the biggest thing and flexibility, you know, being able to have good UX within mobile checkout, that's still an area I'm struggling with hoping to implement Apple Pay or something similar to that sooner than later. But people want more flexibility, especially with how quarter one was relatively kind of, you know, kind of kind of going on to an electric bull for quarter one, you know, that's kind of how was for most people. you know, people, you know, we focusing on providing as much flexibility as we can, financing, we just implemented on our website this year, giving more flexibility to our customers, and also equipping all of our channels for optimal success, the right assets, right time, always being able to work with our Connor (25:09.848) Yeah. Justin Rinaldi (25:36.16) our distributors, our partners to actually enable the sale. know, for me, I don't care if it's on our website or it's through our distributors. I'm more worried about having the checkout experience and the media experience that the customer knows what they're, what they want, what they're getting. Justin Aronstein (26:08.089) Can you go back 20 seconds, your audio all of a sudden start getting worse? Justin Rinaldi (26:13.054) shit. Yeah. Connor (26:15.666) Maybe not 20, yeah. It's like 10 seconds. Justin Aronstein (26:19.279) 10 seconds. You're good. Justin Rinaldi (26:19.406) Okay, sorry about that. Yeah. So with our customers, it's important that we keep our user experience top of mind. Our products are anywhere from 200 pounds up to 2500. We do have parts and some smaller products, but it's not like going to Walmart to buy a KitKat on your way out the door. having setting the expectations upfront and marketing initiatives are imperative for our business and enabling all of our distribution partners. Justin Aronstein (26:37.305) Yeah. Justin Rinaldi (26:48.418) to be able to set those expectations are important for us. Justin Aronstein (26:52.665) Totally. So as you're making these changes, you're making a lot of them, I'm sure, to see what's working. How do you know what's working? How are you measuring that? How are you? Talk to me about that process of, OK, we're focusing on mobile. Justin Rinaldi (26:58.126) Yep. Justin Rinaldi (27:10.166) Yeah, so that, you know, we have all the reporting we need within our different dashboards on what percentage of checkout is happening from a mobile device. That's, you know, it's really easy to get to that report, but there's a lot of reports that we try and follow, you know, the hardest part of getting information is from customers. we, you know, we try and and... handle as much as we can on the back end, then ask when, you know, when they place orders, kind of the cross selling upselling piece of it is how'd you find out about us? Because the attribution channels are a whole nother beast that we could spend probably hours talking about. Digital attribution is, it's not easy. Justin Aronstein (27:59.407) Got it. And do you ever run experiments like, hey, how does this improve checkout, on mobile, for example, on your site? Do you ever do anything like that? Absolutely. And what do you use for that? What's your process? Talk to me about that. how do you know this? Justin Rinaldi (28:10.868) Absolutely. Yeah, that's... Justin Rinaldi (28:16.97) Yeah, so it know, it all, you know, we have really good data on what percentage of our users are coming on mobile devices. So we're making assumptions that the ones that are on our pages on mobile device are most likely to check out from a mobile device. So it's, you know, it's putting their putting the right pieces asking as little information from from our customers as we can in the checkout process. making the changes on product pages, product category pages to get to the products. Designing for mobile checkout is tricky. It's never ending. Yeah, it's really tricky. Justin Aronstein (28:59.789) Yeah, it's really tricky. It's so hard. And so I think friction is great, but I'm going to push back a little. Actually, I'm convinced friction doesn't matter. I actually don't think it matters at all. And here's why. Because how long have you been using the internet? Justin Rinaldi (29:20.206) Yeah, forever. Well, since 20th... Yeah, 2010? I don't know. Yeah. Justin Aronstein (29:24.025) Almost your whole life. And you know how to use it. And I assume your mom even knows how to use the internet. Maybe your parents or people older than you. And they know how to use it. And if they want something, they're going to figure it out, right? So is it the friction that matters or is it that we as marketers haven't created a need inside a bubbling need from the stomach that I have to get this done. And of course, anything on the phone is hard. I had to set up HBO Max on my Roku this morning because I wanted to watch some bike racing and I had to put in my email and password. But you know what? I figured it out even though I had to like type it in. It was a lot of friction. But I wanted to watch that bike racing. So I made it happen. Is it the friction that's the problem, or is that we're not good enough as markers to make people need and want this product? Justin Rinaldi (30:28.588) Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both. Putting too much heat, too much pressure on users can also detract sour people, force them to go to other brands. it's a fine line of putting the right assets in place and enabling their experience with the promotional piece on how we actually influence the final decision. Connor (30:58.118) Do you do more testing you think maybe with messaging and value or more testing with usability and with friction? Justin Rinaldi (30:58.477) Yep. Justin Rinaldi (31:09.234) I think in the messaging is everything just with our average life cycle churn, you know, the A B testing behind the scenes, you know, it's it happens whether our team likes it or not. But, you know, it's kind of it's kind of out of sight out of mind in a way. But the messaging, everybody has strong opinions on how stuff should be written. So, you know, that's the pieces. Justin Aronstein (31:26.562) You Yeah. Connor (31:36.763) true. Justin Rinaldi (31:38.766) you know, less control off of it and providing more guidance on what the hook is, what the message is. And people want to change it for their audience, by all means, go for it. It's, you know, it's, you know. Justin Aronstein (31:55.951) Totally. And what do you think the opportunities in e-commerce will be for you in the next 12, 24 months? Where's this going? Justin Rinaldi (32:03.916) Yeah, I think we're seeing rapid growth. People, I think it's going to become, you know, I don't know, it probably already is. don't have any good numbers to back it up, but I think people prefer to check out digitally as opposed to going somewhere in store. I think that's where, I think that's the big trend is that people are making more decisions without... Justin Aronstein (32:24.271) Thank Justin Rinaldi (32:34.392) without physically going somewhere. Justin Aronstein (32:37.325) And how do you capture that? how does your store, what's your strategy this year to take advantage of that? Justin Rinaldi (32:43.18) Yeah, it's about putting the right assets in the right place, whether it's influencers, new content, strategies, trying to focus on aligning the right partners to kind of, we used to advertise in magazines when we quit that five, six years ago. So it's kind of treating our distributors as well as content creators. I don't like the term influencer, they're brand shepherds, kind of working. Connor (33:09.458) Interesting. Justin Aronstein (33:11.16) What an amazing term. Justin Rinaldi (33:13.198) Like it's... I hate the term influencer. Everybody knows what an influencer is, it's their brand shepherds because it's to convey and carry the brand and the messaging within their audience. I hate the influence content where it's, look at this, go buy it. Here's your discount. Working with brand shepherds and other traditional influencers to actually... Connor (33:13.34) I've never heard that before, but I love that, yeah. Connor (33:21.415) Yeah. Justin Rinaldi (33:42.446) place product and over the long the long term putting products in places where it makes sense as opposed to rushing crappy products just for a promotion to try and drive a discount you know I think that's where the opportunity is Justin Aronstein (34:03.759) Totally, and where do you bring the most passion? Like what excites you? You wake up in the morning and what excites you about that? Justin Rinaldi (34:17.102) You know top-level marketing strategy. You I love you know marketing e-commerce. You know I'm a marketer at heart. E-commerce is something I've grown into because I'm good at marketing. I love data. I love talking about looking at other how other marketers are successfully marketing. You know there's a strength in numbers within the marketing e-commerce community because what works for me isn't going to work for other people. know, it's finding that group on being able to focus top level strategies and actually build a group and communicate with others because it's everybody has strong opinions about e-commerce and marketing. So as leaders we are under so much pressure to deliver and it's you know it's everybody has strong opinions about it because it's outward facing. Connor (35:16.636) Good answer. Justin Aronstein (35:20.591) So lastly, What are you listening to? What are you reading to? What's kind of exciting you? Who are you following right now that, you know? Justin Rinaldi (35:29.526) Yeah, so there's a couple of good resources. TechCrunch is a really good one. Search Engine Journal. Edzitron runs a really good podcast. A little colorful for some people who might have soft ears. But there's a lot of good content that's coming out. It's rapidly changing. Connor (35:52.422) That's funny, Justin's always trying to get people to curse more on the show. Talk about colorful language. Justin Rinaldi (35:55.928) it. Justin Aronstein (36:00.602) No one said fuck today, it's a little disappointing. Connor (36:02.798) Yeah, we'll get it in somehow. Justin Aronstein (36:09.379) Well, Justin, I really appreciate you coming on the show, sharing your insights and what you're working on. Do you have anything you want to plug, anywhere where people can find you and what you're Justin Rinaldi (36:21.602) Connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm open. I like talking with people. I like talking with marketing. The community is slowly starting to build. We're in exciting times of collaboration and sharing. That's one of the best things is the strong community that we're starting to see develop. Justin Aronstein (36:44.771) Well, thank you again. I really appreciate your time. Don't close the screen. This has to upload. So I'm just going to stop recording. Don't just disappear. Justin Rinaldi (36:49.526) Absolutely.